Buyer Agency Agreements & the New Rules: What to Say, What to Sign, How to Stay Compliant with Tia Lilly

Intro: Welcome to Real Estate Unscripted

[00:00:00] Marjorie Adam: Welcome to Real Estate, unscripted. For each week we connect. No nonsense. Let’s get it done. Realtors and lenders from across the country who wanna grow our businesses and stay motivated with timely topics and experts in our field. I’m your host, Marjorie Adam, let’s get started. Hey everyone and welcome to Real Estate Unscripted.

[00:00:18] Marjorie Adam: I’m super excited today to have Tia Lilly. She is the broker owner of Property Cape Cod, which just sounds cool, doesn’t it? Don’t we all just want to go to Cape Cod? So, Tia, thanks for being here today.

[00:00:25] Tia Lilly: Thanks for having me, Marjorie. I really appreciate it.

Market Changes and the Lawsuit Conversation

[00:00:27] Marjorie Adam: No worries. So we are talking about changes in trends in the market, right, right now, and things that realtors and lenders need to be paying attention to.

[00:00:43] Marjorie Adam: And obviously there’s some pretty clear ones that we’re gonna start with, but we’re gonna go beyond the suits, but we’re gonna start there because I think, look, one thing that t and I a hundred percent agree on is we are the leaders of this industry. Uh, I don’t mean just TIA and me, but realtors have to be the leaders.

[00:00:59] Marjorie Adam: We have to be the clearest on what’s happening right now. We have to be the voice of reason. We have to explain without anger or animosity or fear what’s happening in this lawsuit, what this means, the opportunities. It’s our job. And so I think right now there’s just so much misunderstanding. There’s so much lack of clarity.

[00:01:21] Marjorie Adam: What do you, what do you, do you agree? What do you think about that?

[00:01:24] Tia Lilly: Absolutely. I mean, look, change can change, can be scary for everyone, but it’s also, it just depends on how we look at it, right? It can also be something exciting and, and we need it. We need change. We definitely do as an industry. So I mean, it would be great if we could all come together and.

[00:01:43] Tia Lilly: Like you just said and educate. We, we need to be the leaders and voice a reason and, and take a look at ourselves as an industry. Let’s take this opportunity to say, Hey, what, how can we even

[00:01:54] Marjorie Adam: be better? Yeah. So we’re gonna go through a couple things with this lawsuit, and the first one we’re really gonna focus on is education.

Education: Realtor-Level, Brokerage-Level, and Public Clarity

[00:02:00] Marjorie Adam: I think you and I feel very, very strongly that we need to be educated, but I think education in multiple levels, right? Not just on the granular, I’m the realtor level. So what, gimme your thoughts on, on education, and I’ll share mine.

[00:02:15] Tia Lilly: Okay. There’s so much to say on education, right? So, but let’s, let’s just start, start with us as, as realtors.

[00:02:23] Tia Lilly: So. It’s education. Uh, I mean, let’s face it, it’s real easy to get into the business. So we education can come through transactions. That’s really where you get your experience. You can be in the industry for years and years, but if you are only having a couple transactions, look, that’s how, how we gain our experience.

[00:02:44] Tia Lilly: That’s not to say that you can’t come in and be, be a newer agent and offer a lot team up with somebody that’s been in the industry for a while, that really understands it, that has wraps their head around these changes and looks at them with, I mean, look all along. We should have probably been had, we should have been doing this.

[00:03:04] Tia Lilly: I know you’re, and you’re in Virginia. I’m in Massachusetts. Massachusetts and especially Cape Cod. We’re always a little behind the times so. We never adopted this and we should have, I think back in oh seven is when when it was, they were trying and it was an option. Nobody. And specifically like the buyer agency agreement.

[00:03:23] Tia Lilly: Right? The buyer agency agreements. Correct. Correct. So, but I do think as far as the education piece of it as in the industry leaders, and like you said, not just you and I, but all of us together need to educate the public. ’cause it’s just a lot of misconceptions out there right now. A lot of it is, is educating them on what we bring to the table, our value.

[00:03:47] Tia Lilly: I mean, I think with everything we’ll discuss, it all comes back to value and having hard conversations with ourselves. How much value do we bring our clients? Are we, do we need to educate ourselves more? What are we doing? How do you feel at the end of a transaction? Do you feel like, wow, they they were, they had me representing ’em, I did good by them.

[00:04:10] Tia Lilly: Or are we just collecting a paycheck and hope looking for the next person?

[00:04:15] Marjorie Adam: Yeah, I mean, I think that’s absolutely. So I think, yeah, and I mean, if you look at it other levels or tiers, it’s, it’s our, it’s our education and then you’re absolutely right. It’s, we have to educate and it’s always been our job.

[00:04:27] Marjorie Adam: So this isn’t new. The buyer on the process and. Have this consultation, which I’m still surprised, and I don’t know why it was so rare across the country to do a buyer consult. I’ve done one always. So I think that if you really boil it down and you think about this as a realtor, no one listed a house without a listing presentation of some sort.

[00:04:48] Marjorie Adam: Let’s even just say, let’s agreement, right? Right. You didn’t list a house without an agreement. How great your presentation was and how much you had to prove your value. Uh, who knows? But you had a listing agreement. But the buyer agency agreement was like, I didn’t do that. And I’m like, well, it’s half the job.

Buyer Consultations, Buyer Agency Agreements, and Setting Expectations

[00:05:03] Marjorie Adam: So now you have to, but so you’ve gotta educate the buyers on, especially think about it. So let’s say in Cape Cod, where it wasn’t common, and I’m not blaming anyone, and our office was required, so it’s been done that way. But let’s say you’ve never done it. But remember, you as a realtor have never done it.

[00:05:20] Marjorie Adam: Your entire area has never done it. So you are going to, someone’s gonna call you to you and say, Hey, I wanna buy a house with you, either again or for the first time. And you’re gonna say, Ooh, hold on. We need to have a consult and we need to get a buyer’s agency agreement signed. They’re gonna be like, what are you talking about?

[00:05:34] Marjorie Adam: I’ve done this 10 times. Never done that. Yeah, yeah. Well that was then. This is now. And so I think the shift, by the way, isn’t just for us. If the public wasn’t used to it, or every house they bought didn’t have this, they didn’t have to do that. That is going to be an education stumbling block for a lot of people.

[00:05:50] Marjorie Adam: What do you mean you can’t just drive out and show me this house? We do it every day. So them, the seller’s on, of course the, you know, everyone says we, you don’t have to pay the buyer’s agent anymore. Well, you didn’t before, but now it’s, how does that work? Because the money didn’t just poof. Right? The value didn’t just change.

[00:06:06] Marjorie Adam: But then I’m gonna argue as well, and you talked about this as we go up, it’s the brokerages that have to be educating their realtors, their agents, right, on proper ways of doing things. And by the way, the old way gone. And you know, if, if we think that the. DOJ and the attorneys are gonna be done looking at us.

[00:06:24] Marjorie Adam: You’re crazy. So the, the scrutiny that we’re gonna be under is gonna be massive, and then it’s, you know, for me, I’m Virginia, the, the state association level, the National Association of level, there is a lot of coming together. We all need to do. I’m still hearing, oh, if NAR had done this or this state or this company had done this, all right, we’re past that now.

[00:06:45] Marjorie Adam: Right, right. That’s old news. So education to me, for any realtor who is not like, there’s so many things you need to read. Like if you haven’t read the NAR report and the lawsuit summaries, you gotta, you have to do that. You have to know these things and what’s happening in your state. What is your office requiring?

[00:07:04] Marjorie Adam: What do the new forms look like? ’cause Bye bye. If your forum haven’t changed, they’re gonna Right. Like California made it a whole day before the DOJ and watchdogs came in. So I think this, this education is massive and if you’re just starting, you’re behind. I mean, I don’t know another way to put it.

[00:07:21] Tia Lilly: Right, right. Good for you that you were doing the buyer consults all along too. I think that’s a key, because I think just to kind of touch on what you said in a little more by going back and doing, starting even there, there’s just so much, like you always, no matter what, like you said, sat down with a, with a seller, went through some kind of presentation, had a listing agreement with the buyers.

[00:07:44] Tia Lilly: It brings by sitting down with these consultation too, right there, we’re talking about elevating our industry and. Bringing more like coming together. Let’s just all of us look at what we can do to raise it to, to be more, I, I don’t wanna say classy, but a level of, a level of higher service that. We all deserve.

[00:08:03] Tia Lilly: In the industry, we work hard too, so let’s also value ourselves as well as what we bring to the table for a client. So our potential client, a customer to a client. So sitting down with that consultation, I think is key in so many levels because you’re setting the tone. Your time’s valuable too. Like how many times do we hear realtors running around, oh my gosh, it was a waste of time.

[00:08:26] Tia Lilly: Buyers are liars. They’re not liars. They just change what they want through the process. It’s a process. That process changes as we go through it. But if we stop and ask questions, get to know them, they sometimes I can sit down with somebody, have that consultation and realize, okay, strap in where they don’t know what they want and it’s gonna change.

[00:08:46] Tia Lilly: Right. It’s true. It’s like, and it’s okay. They say to me, I’m so sorry. I know I said this, but now we’re thinking it’s like, it’s part of the process. Don’t be sorry. They weren’t lying. They are just trying to figure out, we’re not buying a gadget here. It’s not a, not a, you know, it’s not something you can bring back or trade in.

[00:09:05] Tia Lilly: You are, it’s a big purchase, so let’s treat it as such. Let’s, it should start with, it deserves a conversation, not a backseat on the hood. Signing a buyer agency, you know, disclosure and, okay. You know, so I, I think that’s, that’s a key. So good. Kudos to you all for doing it all along.

Proving Value, Expectations, and Process Discipline

[00:09:25] Marjorie Adam: I think think about it like for every, the buyer consult almost is the solution or answer to every frustration that a realtor and or buyer has.

[00:09:34] Marjorie Adam: So if you really think about it, when you hear buyers complain, oh, they showed me 10 houses. It was nothing I want. Well, that’s because there wasn’t a clear wants and needs consultation. You know, hey, I, I went to look at all these houses and then realized I’m not comfortable with a payment. What? That’s a lack of pre-approval in discussing, you know, discussing what their comfortable range is based on payment and making sure that’s clear.

[00:09:55] Marjorie Adam: You know, that realtor, I worked with a realtor forever and they didn’t find anything, like, I couldn’t find anything. Well, again, buyer consultation, anyone that says I want three bedrooms, so I’m gonna move to, Hey, by the way, Tia, I wanna move to Cape Cod. I would like 5,000 square feet on the water and I’d like to spend four 50.

[00:10:11] Marjorie Adam: Okay. No, right? Like that’s a clear no. But instead of TIA saying No, what I need to do is go do a live MLS search with them and say, Hey, so Tia, let’s look at this. Okay, here’s all of your criteria you want. Let’s feed this into the search. Like you go on Zillow, you go on every search, look, nothing came up.

[00:10:27] Marjorie Adam: Ooh, okay, so let’s drop the bedrooms. Still, no waterfront, not a shot, right? Like so. And then we say, oh, okay, we took off the garage, we took this off. We’re no longer waterfront. We’re 30 minutes away. Here it is. So it’s not Tia saying you can’t find it, it’s the market. So I think if we say I’ve, I’ve showed ’em a hundred houses.

[00:10:45] Marjorie Adam: Shame on you. That’s also a lack of clarity. Now, if they keep change, if every house you show them the, the criteria change is okay. But I think that we think about what people are so frustrated with buyers is a lack of preparation on our end. And I think if we now, not all of them. Some people create and

[00:11:02] Tia Lilly: it’s, the frustration is really boils down to a expectation not being met.

[00:11:06] Tia Lilly: So we need to kind of, we need to get out in front of that. And just like you’re saying is say, okay, let’s take a look at this instead of saying, yeah, okay. Throw ’em on a search at four 50 Waterfront. They never hear from you again. Oh, because you’re not to, right, right. So, and you don’t wanna ever say no to them.

[00:11:25] Tia Lilly: So you wanna just like with what you said, like that’s what I usually do. Okay. Let me, how about I just. Open up the price point just for kicks and giggles and let me show you what’s out there. Let me even show you what closed at four 50 on the water, right? So, oops. We don’t have anything. So what do we think instead of job?

[00:11:46] Tia Lilly: Yeah, it’s doing, because again, you’re, you know, internally we’re

[00:11:49] Marjorie Adam: like, well, that’ll never find it, but we don’t say anything and then we actually even crazier get in the car. It’s like, wow, this was a disaster. I can’t believe it. But I think, and also like we talked about, so education. Proving our value, which by the way, it can’t just be, ’cause I’ve done it that way.

[00:12:04] Marjorie Adam: It can’t just be, I’m 28 years in. You’re 20 years in. I’ve done it for 28 years. You’re gonna pay me this. Oh, really? So none of that. It’s truly what is a value to them. Not how cool you are, but like, what are you doing for them? Fix a problem. Look, they, they have a problem. They wanna buy a house. So it’s time and solve a problem.

[00:12:21] Marjorie Adam: How am I saving them time? How am I solving a problem? How am I negotiating for them? That’s what they care about, that I’m a blah, blah, blah, cubic, Zia da da da performer of la la, la. They don’t care like and shouldn’t. Right? Right. So I think, and then systems and processes, I think all of us who. A lot of realtors seated the fly by the seat of your pants, never the same way twice.

[00:12:41] Marjorie Adam: Got a lot of post-its whoopsie, it’s two in the morning, and I forgot the termite inspection. Like we’ve gotta kind of also get more organized in our systems and processes. So I think, look, the opportunities right now are massive. So yes, there’s a lot of fear. There’s a lot of, oh, you know, I’m saying if you haven’t read Who Moved My Cheese, read the book and Adapt.

[00:13:01] Marjorie Adam: Great book. It’s a great book. And that’s where we are right now. I think the biggest thing is. I’ve always done it this way. It always happened this way. I always charge this. I always, nope. Right. There’s not an, I always, right now your, I always now is gonna be, I always do a buyer consultation. I always get a buyer agency agreement, you know, sign.

[00:13:20] Marjorie Adam: I always explain commission, you know, payments, fees to my sellers and the benefits of offering them and what happens and how it works. Like that’s an I always now, and that’s okay. That’s a good thing.

[00:13:32] Tia Lilly: Change is great. If we don’t change and adapt, we won’t, we won’t be a, we wouldn’t be an industry. So, and it’s just the same with larger corporations.

[00:13:41] Tia Lilly: Those people that don’t, any company, they don’t make changes. You gotta adapt to the. To the new, um, the new ways, the new what and what the public, and what people are looking for. So I think this is all good. Very good.

Portals, Lead Generation, and Showing Agreements

[00:13:55] Marjorie Adam: Yeah. It

[00:13:56] Tia Lilly: will

[00:13:56] Marjorie Adam: be and adjustment. It will be, it’s gonna be, it’s gonna be adjustment. If we don’t make this a positive, clear change, it’s not going to help us.

[00:14:05] Marjorie Adam: Right. Like, again, I think everyone can have their, you know, you can go home and sit there and think of what it used to be. Really lamented and then get to work and, and realize the old way, there’s no work around. It’s a work through, like I keep hearing, well, we could do this. No, no, no, no, no. Like this is how it’s gonna work.

[00:14:22] Marjorie Adam: This is how we’re gonna move forward. Right? Or we are going to face continued lawsuits, scrutiny, anything else. So it’s sort of like, okay, this is how it is. And then we we’re talking about like changes. So a big one for me that I am working on figuring out is the portals. If you are a realtor that did a lot of cold leads through portals, this is not bashing you.

[00:14:44] Marjorie Adam: So a lot of people have really strong businesses on it, not something I do. I know it’s not something you do either. But you know, before you could sign up and pay X dollars for a zip code on Zillow or whatever it was, right to be featured or all the different variations. And someone typed in, I wanna see 1, 2, 3 Main Street and popped over to you and maybe two other people and you would rush out and show a house and sell them a house.

[00:15:07] Marjorie Adam: Because obviously the compensation was an MLS and it was guaranteed. That’s a big change now. So I know like Zillow introduced a seven day showing agreement. Oh, I don’t think those are gonna work. So it really interesting for those business models that relied a lot on coal generation of leads. To capture and you know, to, to go work with the, I can’t just show you a house anymore, you’ve gotta have a signed agreement, I think is gonna be a massive change.

[00:15:36] Marjorie Adam: That to me in the next year is gonna be very interesting how I frankly think they’re gonna morph and already have started to really collecting more from listing agents, right? You’re gonna have to pay more to have your properties listed there for compensation. But I think that’s gonna be a massive shift in how business has done, big teams, whatever it may be.

[00:15:53] Marjorie Adam: What are your thoughts on that? Absolutely.

[00:15:55] Tia Lilly: That I think I see that as the biggest change that, that it’s going to adjust for everyone because by buyers right now aren’t used to that. So how we educate them, because off these portals, right, you just run out there, you show a house. So, but again, it comes back to.

[00:16:12] Tia Lilly: It really like for me, and I, I think I can tell from talking to you, it’s the value that you bring if you, you need to set also that you are, you have something to offer them. I think sometimes just running out and not talking to them before you get to the house devalues our service. So there should be somewhere a conversation.

[00:16:32] Tia Lilly: So I’m coaching ’cause I do have a, a couple agents that have used some of these portals and do. To even try to get to the office or set the time earlier so that you can chat with them. Hey, can we just go? That’s what I used to do when I built my business on buyer agency. If the office isn’t convenient to where you’re going to just say, Hey, can we meet at the coffee?

[00:16:54] Tia Lilly: Just pick a coffee store. Pick somewhere where you can just sit with them because you’re setting the tone. For what? This, this, this is a house. This is not a, you know, picking out a kitchen appliance or, or, it’s, it’s a big deal. So, and you wanna connect both ways. You wanna also make sure, especially in these times, that this is someone you also wanna work with and you want to feel each other out, because that’s, I also coach my team on that.

[00:17:23] Tia Lilly: If you have any red flags. Listen to yourself, come to me. I will try to work with you so you’re not, you know, it works for you as well. Don’t go down that road. You know? ’cause our, our company philosophy, we’re probably a little different, a lot different from you. We’re not as, and a lot of the corporations, I get it.

[00:17:42] Tia Lilly: They have to have a lot of structure. They have a lot of agents and we’re ultimately, like, I’m a broker owner, so I’m ultimately reliable for what my team does or doesn’t do. Right? Yep. So. But our philosophy, like we’re, I, I’m really particular about who I hire. We are driven by enriching people’s lives, one connection at a time, and that’s, and we all love what we do.

[00:18:06] Tia Lilly: We’re super passionate about it. So I don’t worry as much. ’cause I think if we’re putting the value, if we value what we bring, I know we bring a lot of value to our clientele. We do a lot of repeat business, lots of referrals. That’s our main source of business, 90% of it. We don’t do a lot of advertising.

[00:18:25] Tia Lilly: So we feel good about what we bring to the table. We know that we can be proactive. And it definitely comes a lot from experience too, because I brought on agents, I brought on. Not usually a hire with experience, but I have taken a couple on that aren’t, and they work with experience. So they have that behind them because we are 28 years in.

[00:18:49] Tia Lilly: If you’re coming up, if you’re, you’re, it’s just you have a lot more experience than somebody new. So that is an added value and we’re all been getting paid the same essentially. So I see this as opportunity ’cause we’re all, we’re not all right now. Worth the same in value, if that makes sense. I mean, we weren’t ever, but we weren’t ever, ever.

[00:19:10] Tia Lilly: No, that’s what I’m saying. Yeah,

[00:19:12] Marjorie Adam: exactly. Exactly. But we’ll say that. So with the portals, like you mentioned, you know, it, it was always been smart to meet them. Like it’s always been a good practice. To not just run out and show, but the biggest difference is you can’t. So now you cannot just show up and say and, and not have the buyer agency discussion.

[00:19:32] Marjorie Adam: ’cause again, the clarity in the legislation is you must have a signed buyer agency agreement before showing the house, right? So you can’t even show up there. So now the hard part is whether you get on Zoom or whether you get whatever discussion you have. It’s not even just that it’s good business practice or smart or safer or everything else, it’s that literally it’s required.

[00:19:57] Marjorie Adam: And I think, look, if we think they’re not gonna be quote unquote shoppers that are saying, Hey, just come show me this house and you don’t have a discussion, and plus think about it, the comp, you have no relationship. So if I just jump in the car and show you a house, Tia, and then go, Hey, cool, I’ll write you a contract.

[00:20:13] Marjorie Adam: There’s no more procuring costs that that used to be, oh, I get paid for that. That’s gone. We don’t, Hey, I don’t, you don’t work for me. You show me this house. I’ll just call the listing agent. I’m sorry. There’s no agreement. We have no brokerage agreement. I don’t owe you a penny. So I think the whole shift in in the reality is gonna be a lot.

Buyer Agreements, Compensation, and Writing It Into the Contract

[00:20:31] Marjorie Adam: Right? Like I think that it’s not just smart business, it’s required business,

[00:20:35] Tia Lilly: it’s required. But I can see still, that’s why I bring this up. ’cause I can see with these portals that they do go out there and still with, let’s say this is. We’ll just call it a porter. We all, yeah. So they go out there, they still meet them at the house.

[00:20:52] Tia Lilly: They still show up a little bit early, but they say, in order to, for me to show you this house, I need you to sign this agreement. This is the law now. It’s mandatory. Well, they’re gonna wanna see the house, right? So it, it’s gonna be a little awkward, I would say, if you’re approaching it from that standpoint.

[00:21:13] Tia Lilly: I don’t know. This is the, all the unknowns. What’s that gonna look like and what are the agreements gonna look like? Because that’s all gonna be different. I think it’s gonna be more personalized to all of our philosophies as different companies, different ways of thinking, and that’s where we do need to try, really try to ’cause let look when we’re in a transaction, I always say I work for.

[00:21:35] Tia Lilly: My client, whether it’s on the sell side or whether it’s on the buy side, but why can’t we all try to have a good transaction and make it a win-win win? We’re not against each other. We’re all working for a common goal. So if we can try to carry that philosophy forward, especially with these changes too.

[00:21:53] Tia Lilly: I think in time it’s going to set a culture. We don’t know what that’s gonna be yet. Right. I mean, we don’t know how people are gonna know what the, what the fee’s gonna be paid out. I always am trying to get a word away from the word commit. No, no fees.

[00:22:07] Marjorie Adam: I

[00:22:07] Tia Lilly: mean

[00:22:08] Marjorie Adam: it’s, and talk it as a Right. It’s,

[00:22:10] Tia Lilly: or whatever structure.

[00:22:11] Tia Lilly: Yeah. Just like we’re professionals, just like you hire attorney, you pay a fee. We’re, you know, we’re offering a service. Services are fee based. Right. So I just, that’s the part where it’s gonna be, and I think we should think about it as an industry and how we wanna also handle that. ’cause we adapt cultures.

[00:22:29] Tia Lilly: It just kind of happens and I think if we’d be mindful of direction we wanna go and how we wanna elevate our industry and bring that, that could. There’s gonna be a lot of changes there. Right. So it’s gonna be called, and even from where you are to where we are, we’ll have a whole different culture. Just even driving over a bridge.

[00:22:49] Tia Lilly: It’s a different culture from, if I wanna go show a house and leave the cape, go over the bridge. Completely different how it’s handled on the Cape. Yeah. But I think

[00:23:00] Marjorie Adam: the, I think the thing these lawsuits will do though, is it will unify the documents, meaning. And again, all of our state documents are different, so not the disclosures and the addendums, but like, you know, if you look at the three documents and how it worked and how it will work, the listing agreement will be if you’re the, if you’re the realtor and I’m the seller, it’s going to be that you’re offering to compensate me or whatever.

[00:23:25] Marjorie Adam: Who was who, right? Right. You know, I will be as the listing agent compensated x. Yes, there’ll be a field for concessions, but that’s my compensation. That’s that agreement, right? And then there’s the buyer agency agreement. Right? Now this people are like, well, this is the same, but here’s the difference. The buyer agency agreement says, I’m going to, as the buyer agent collects X right now, I might collect it from the seller.

[00:23:48] Marjorie Adam: I might not, because if they’re not willing to pay it, I gotta collect it from the buyer. The place that it’s clear is gonna be in the contract, because I think where people are still really confused as they say, oh. I’m gonna reach out to the listing agent. So if you’re the listing agent and I wanna show your house as a buyer’s agent, you say, absolutely.

[00:24:05] Marjorie Adam: My seller is offering concessions. Sure. And I go and sell the house. And if I don’t write it in the contract, I have nothing. I’m not getting correct to be paid. Right? Correct. And I think that’s so right now that really decoupling.

[00:24:17] Tia Lilly: So are you asking, and this is a question to you, are you asking what they’re offering out when you call?

[00:24:23] Tia Lilly: Let’s just say hypothetically. So,

[00:24:25] Marjorie Adam: yes. So, because here’s why I think, no, not even just hypothetically, come now. We’re August 5th, the country is August 14th. So our MLS. Shifts completely August 5th. So will I be asking? Yes, but I think where you Yes, I will. I will. Because if I’m gonna go show five houses, let’s say, I will say, is your seller offering any compensation or fee?

[00:24:46] Marjorie Adam: You know, any fees. And look, whether you are or not doesn’t necessarily change what I charge. It doesn’t change what I charge, but I have to know the expectation that you set as the listing agent with your client for a buyer fee. Because then how I have to talk to my client also changes. So if you say, yes, my seller’s offering compensation and they’re offering X, I don’t want to get into fixing it.

[00:25:10] Marjorie Adam: Yeah, that I know. Now. That doesn’t mean I got it. I have to write it in. If I call you and you say, Nope, they are not paying you. They’re not interested. They don’t think they have anything to do with it, then I need to sit with my buyers as well and say, look, we’re gonna write this in, but we’re gonna be probably facing some opposition.

[00:25:25] Marjorie Adam: Or, there’s five offers coming in on this house, and the seller made it clear. No compensation is being offered. We’re in a multi offer situation. We’re gonna have to figure out compensation. Here’s what I think we should do. So yes, you have to ask the question because I need to know how I’m going to properly consult my client, which is the buyer.

[00:25:44] Marjorie Adam: On how we’re going to then collect that, right? Mm-hmm. Like my, my goal is of course to ask the seller to pay us.

[00:25:51] Tia Lilly: So, so for, because I’ve, I’ve looked at everything and we’re talk discussion and it’s a lot of discussion right now. Yeah. So at, at this point, Hey, this is my philosophy. What I, how I’m, and, and this could change, okay.

[00:26:04] Tia Lilly: But it’s where I’m at, is I would just love us to try to raise our level, as in I keep saying that, and, and just really trying to look at what we can do, because. I’m gonna encourage, like you, you, let’s say you, I have the listing. You’re coming in. You are, you’re calling me. Hey, are you paying out a, a fee?

[00:26:22] Tia Lilly: Yes, we are. Marjorie. Well, what is that fee? It’s negotiable. ’cause it’s gonna depend on what you bring to the table. Like if you’re bringing my, my client a really great offer. And, and I, so I’m not gonna say because I, I also wanna negotiate that and look, we’ll also have it included into our agreements. We are always going to encourage our sellers to have something in there to pay buyer agents.

[00:26:47] Tia Lilly: But if you’re, if you’re, if, if all depends on what that offer looks like, how it comes in, because it’s, I would love to work with a great buyer agent. Are you kidding me? I would even. Just so I’ll have it in there, and if it’s somebody that’s gonna really work in that transaction, I’m gonna be all on board to pay whatever it is that you’re putting forth.

[00:27:11] Tia Lilly: But that it just, I, I just see sometimes, a lot of times they aren’t even at the house showing it.

[00:27:17] Marjorie Adam: They’re gone, they show up for the paycheck. It’s like, right. I think you’re correct, but. I don’t think so. I don’t need you to tell me necessarily what they’re offering. Right. But I think, but they’re realtors.

[00:27:29] Marjorie Adam: My, your job is of course to represent your client. Mine is to represent my purchaser. And of course, if I now am in the world where that seller has said no, I Right. But no. Right. I have to know because my rating of that offer changes. And my collecting of that compensation changes. So, absolutely.

[00:27:49] Marjorie Adam: Absolutely. So will I be making the call? Yes. Am I gonna not show the house if you’re not offering No, I’m still showing the house because I’m writing it in, like, or my buyer and I are, are having our, our strategy. So, but I think that I have, I can’t go in blind because let’s say I didn’t ask You agree. I we totally agree on that.

[00:28:06] Marjorie Adam: Yeah. So you don’t need to

[00:28:07] Tia Lilly: know. So Yeah,

[00:28:08] Marjorie Adam: exactly how, ’cause if I don’t ask, and I show the house and I write it in and you say, what are you doing? We’re not offering, I mean. There has to be clarity on that. And I think the clearer the sellers are on what, what your local expectations are, what they should expect to see is a big part of this.

[00:28:26] Marjorie Adam: But look, whether or not it’s offered doesn’t mean they can’t ask. Right. So, but I will, I be asking. I absolutely will. Absolutely. Same. Yeah. You need to know. Yeah, same. Same here. Same here. But I, again, we’re all, listen. Everyone can do it differently. Someone can say, like, there, I know a lot of people that are like, I’m not gonna ask.

[00:28:43] Marjorie Adam: I’m writing it in and that’s okay too. Cool. I, I don’t think that’s a problem, but I think strategically when we are in a lower inventory market in general mm-hmm. And if, if I’m in an area where I think seven offers are coming in on this house, I have to, this is real math, right? I need to know. Look, if there is a blanket offer, which is not allowed, if the seller says, look, I am, yes, I’m willing to compensate a buyer’s agent, awesome.

[00:29:09] Marjorie Adam: Then I know, okay, then you’ve had that discussion with them. What that number is, we’re not sure of, I’ve got my sales exactly. Buyer. We gotta figure it out. Alright, let’s look at some other trends.

Buyers vs. Listings: Why the “Only Listings” Trend Is Risky

[00:29:29] Marjorie Adam: One of them that I’m hearing a lot that I get that confuses me a little bit is almost everything I read or I talk to people, they’re like, I’m just going for listings.

[00:29:29] Marjorie Adam: That’s it. I’m just gonna be, and, and again, listers last listings. We all love a listing. It’s, you have to have listings. I’m, I’m, we’re all in agreement. But I find it funny that I’ve, I’ve literally talked to people like, I’m just not gonna work with buyers. I’m gonna just do listings. And I was like, so you share first and then I’ll share my

[00:29:47] Tia Lilly: thoughts

[00:29:48] Marjorie Adam: on that.

[00:29:49] Tia Lilly: Okay. Well. It’s always good to have a balance, I think. But I built my agency strictly on buyers buyer agency. I, I love working with buyers. I will say through the COVID times when things got a little crazy, I pulled back off the buyers. It was just, it was just too much. You, they couldn’t even get here in time.

[00:30:12] Tia Lilly: There were already 20 offers on a house, so. My focus, the trend I’m seeing per even personally, and I’m encouraging my team as well. Let’s get back to, to work ’cause we have turned into more listings lately. Let’s get back to servicing our bi, like getting our buyers because. Buyers turn to sellers. They’re awesome to work with.

[00:30:33] Tia Lilly: We, we become friends. Like I have a lot of my friends or people I worked with that had bought and it’s just one, it’s just so fun. And two, it’s, I think that’s where the changes, we’re starting to see it swing here. I mean, we aren’t having, the crazy days are over unless something’s priced super aggressive.

[00:30:53] Tia Lilly: Okay, it’s getting multiple offers, but days on market are climbing again, and that’s when I got into it. When it was like a buyer’s market. You could go on tour for two days and look at lots of homes. So we’re, we’re swinging back that to that way. Agreed. So, yeah, it’s a great opportunity. Yeah, I think, and we’re gonna see structures and, and it’s gonna be interesting with sellers, right?

[00:31:18] Tia Lilly: When this is starting to swing, it’s gonna be very interesting to see what the sellers like, Hey, right now they still might say, Hey, I’m okay, don’t pay, don’t offer anything out, but. I think we’re gonna see those fees even skyrocket when the, when it swings, the pendulum goes the other way. Right.

[00:31:38] Marjorie Adam: Well, I mean, but think about it.

[00:31:39] Marjorie Adam: I mean it’s, some of it’s obviously supply and demand, like the sellers, when the market’s nuts and everything sells in two seconds, staging’s less important. In theory. I can overprice a little bit. No, I’m not gonna replace the dishwasher. You know, it becomes this take it or leave it. What? Now how this sit longer and all of a sudden we’re painting them and you know what, we have to show it better and we’re gonna, we’re working, we’re doing our job well, all the sellers too, right?

[00:32:06] Marjorie Adam: It’s like, oh, well I do need to clear out the backyard and guess what? I’m gonna have to pay some clothes and costs and you know, so I think that when the pendulum swings. You know, they look, the, the fee that the sellers pay is an incentive fee, right? For compensation, for cooperation. And so I think it is gonna be interesting, you know, ironically, as it’s, the pendulum has shifted a little bit here, we have more days on the market, especially let’s say our attached homes.

[00:32:35] Marjorie Adam: All of a sudden there’s alu of them, and I’m getting, should we offer more? Should we offer higher concessions to them? And I think that’s funny, right? Like, no, just, just pay ’em. But. I think that’s gonna be the interesting thing. So I do also think we’re in a limited inventory market. I don’t know when that changes.

[00:32:51] Marjorie Adam: I think everyone going after listings is going to be an interesting phenomenon. But again, the listings are great, but you need to hire to buy. So I’m not interested in having a bunch of inventory and no buyers buying it. So I think, look, I think we gotta raise our levels of service to both. I think we have to have clear presentations and value to both.

[00:33:10] Marjorie Adam: I think that, you know. I agree with you. A buyer becomes a seller. Look, almost always when you get, when you’re new in real estate, you get buyers first. Those buyers become sellers. You get more sellers. I think, look, we need to be working with who’s moving. So if you have an inventory shortage and you have an influx of people coming to purchase, you need to be taking care of them.

[00:33:30] Marjorie Adam: So I think this sort of, I don’t do this side of the business and I don’t do this side of the business has never made sense to me. But I do think that. Almost everyone in pretty high levels are like, oh, we’re fully focused on listings. I’m like, that’s good, but so is everybody else. Right? So I think that’s mass competition.

[00:33:47] Marjorie Adam: So you’re gonna have to look, you have two choices, provide way high value, charge less if everyone’s going for it, right? Those are, you either have to do more and, and really provide more, or I have to not, and therefore charge less because I provide less. Right? And so, to me, I, I don’t love that as a thought, right?

[00:34:05] Marjorie Adam: Where it’s like all of a sudden I’m gonna chase a market down.

Market Trends: Inventory, Mobility, and Where Business Is Coming From

[00:34:05] Marjorie Adam: But I think, look, other trends people need to pay attention to. I told you this earlier, like if people haven’t read the 2023 NAR report, so they put a report out every year. It’s very good and it’s the trends nationally and you know everyone who counts on like you and I both.

[00:34:22] Marjorie Adam: I’m 90% plus referral base. My past clients repeat business. I don’t do cold leads ever. And I think when you think about it, my clients who moved every three to five years are now moving every 15 years. That changes the database. It changes clients moving, it changes relationships, it changes business models.

[00:34:43] Marjorie Adam: So I think that anyone who’s not really, look, if you’re a realtor and you’re not looking at the last couple years of where your business is coming from and, and noting that, we call it the golden handcuff, right? Everyone who got a 2.9% interest rate. It’s probably not going anywhere anytime soon. So if we’re not really looking forward to who’s moving, who’s coming into the area, the have to move people.

[00:35:05] Marjorie Adam: Look what demographics are shifting, what neighborhoods are selling? Like we have to be paying really close attention to our markets. Where are people coming from? Look, if everyone’s moving to Cape Cod from Charlottesville, Virginia, then you need to know me because I can send people to you. You know what I mean?

[00:35:19] Marjorie Adam: Like. Right. That’s the things we need to be paying attention to.

Lenders and Realtors: Shared Education and Shared Process

[00:35:19] Marjorie Adam: Now, the opportunities of what we need to focus on, and that’s what I would encourage. Look, there’s a lot of lenders here listening to, and it’s the same thing for them. Like if, if your refi boom is dead, because right now, let’s face it, unless rates go down a percent or whatever that magic math is, I’m not a lender.

[00:35:39] Marjorie Adam: And you have that business, and if there are fewer purchases, then you need more relationships, right? You need different things. You need to be focusing on. You need to be looking at your trends. If your past clients as well are moving now in 15 years instead of three to five, then you’ve gotta be really paying attention to what niches or markets you need to get into.

[00:35:58] Marjorie Adam: You have to be looking at your value. ’cause let’s face it, we get shocked, but they get chopped to the end. Like once we’ve got a listing agreement or buyer agency agreement, generally the shopping stops for lenders. It can go for, you can think you’re done, and they’re like, Nope, I went somewhere else.

[00:36:12] Marjorie Adam: Right? So that value can’t just be a rate. Right? And if they’re rate shoppers, you’ll never prove value. But they have to have their consults now. They’ve been doing ’em a lot longer in some way, shape or form. Right. So quite frankly, any realtors listening maybe get together with your lenders and find out what their consults look like.

[00:36:29] Marjorie Adam: What do they do that’s really effective? ’cause you think we get shocked who? They get shocked more than we do. And by the way, joint education, because the way the process changes as well. I mean, we’re gonna get to the point if we’re not already. That if I’m, if you’re the lender, you’re gonna call me and say, Hey, I need your buyer agency agreement.

[00:36:46] Marjorie Adam: ’cause I need to talk compensation with this buyer. Right? They need to understand the math, if the seller is unwilling to pay, how it’s gonna get baked in or added to, or paid outta closing or whatever the scenarios are gonna be. So I think that’s all things we all need to be really paying attention to as industries as well.

[00:37:04] Marjorie Adam: Absolutely.

[00:37:05] Tia Lilly: Absolutely. That’s why it’s good to have, like, we’re even seeing it. We, we’ve brought in a few lenders to talk to the team and it, it’s really interesting and it’s awesome to see. I do think a lot of the lenders are supporting, like, we need to support each other, like you said. So it’s, it’s, it, you know, it’s gonna be, they’re gonna be working with buyers to be able to offer concessions.

[00:37:29] Tia Lilly: A lot more than they used to, it sounds like, than the generals. So it, which is pretty, which is all, which is great. So I think, yeah, just having these close relationships. It’s not. A lot of due diligence, a little bit more, even as a listing agent and as a buyer’s agent. Definitely due diligence with that mortgage piece of it to make sure it works, you know, and also

[00:37:51] Marjorie Adam: see what, how can lenders support realtors, let’s be honest, right?

[00:37:55] Marjorie Adam: Yeah. Because if you think about it, there’s always been this, you know, it’s always funny to me, realtors are like, well, I send all my business to my lender and he doesn’t send business back. Well, because generally they will get it from the realtors, right? It’s much less opposite. I think as things change, more and more people might start with the lender, and then they’re gonna really say to the lender, as this lender runs through this math, do I shit, who’s the real, do I need a buyer’s agent?

[00:38:18] Marjorie Adam: And I think those lenders also, now again, I don’t mean they, but they need to be saying, well, here’s why. Here’s why I would work with one. Here’s the value of the buyer’s agent. This is what they’re gonna help you with. It is symbiotic, like we need to help each other. Just like I, I know a transaction goes way better with my lender and a reputable lender who is gonna follow timelines and actually order appraisals and let me know when there’s a problem and is gonna be honest with me from the beginning.

[00:38:44] Marjorie Adam: If there’s an issue that’s gonna prohibit these people from being able to perform, that’s key. And so, you know, because we are a podcast of lenders and realtors. I think it’s funny ’cause when if realtors listen and they hear lenders, they kind of tune out when really any any suggestions or tips on consultations for either side is, is applicable to both.

[00:39:03] Marjorie Adam: Right. So, you know, being lender leaders in the industry is both of us. Education is both of us. Right. Systems and processes. And what our value is, is all of us, you know, opportunity to in, to raise our industries is all of us. And it is now.

Adapting Fast: Compliance, Mindset, and “Work Through” Not “Work Around”

[00:39:03] Marjorie Adam: And I think anyone who’s been freaking out, it’s like, okay. My message to you, and I’m sure TIAs is you’ve had your time. We can all lament the good old days if that’s what they were. And now this is where you are and this is what you need to learn and this is what you need to educate and this is how you’re gonna power through it, and you have no choice. So yay you,

[00:39:39] Tia Lilly: yay. You know, I mean, like, and look at it as an opportunity.

[00:39:42] Tia Lilly: Yes. I, I see it as an opportunity. I mean, I know I work really hard. It’s, I’ll tell you, even back in the days when we tried to adopt those buyer agreements, I would, I, I had, I had a fee structure that was a little bit higher than what was being offered out, and it was just got so difficult to, to present and it was this, this animo I just was.

[00:40:05] Tia Lilly: It just got too much that I didn’t wanna be spending the time on the transaction talking about my fee. I wanna be helping my client. Right? I, I’m not gonna ever let that get in the way of their ultimate goal personally, but it’s just, it’s just an opportunity to show what we can do, our value, and to be able to negotiate our own.

[00:40:25] Tia Lilly: I think it makes sense when you think about it. It just makes so much sense. Yeah, it does. I mean, really it shouldn’t be relied upon somebody else to negotiate our fee when I know what I’m bringing to the table. But because they negotiated some, you know, my buyer falls in love with this house. That the fees, the fees just a low fee.

[00:40:48] Tia Lilly: I’m doing all this work. I’m thinking this doesn’t. Seem right. I’m not money motivated personally, but like time is money and the value, and I’m, I’m thinking to myself, they’re, they’re with me, so I’m doing all this. I don’t know what it would be like if they were with someone else. Not again, not, you know, it may be, and who knows, but, um, well, you’re, I just think you’re making

[00:41:11] Marjorie Adam: the right point.

[00:41:12] Marjorie Adam: I have to be clear on what my value is and what I charge. And look, let’s be clear. Any client, seller, buyer buyers have always had the opportunity to not have a realtor. Sellers can put a sign in their yard that says for sale by owner, they can, they could have gone an MLS before, by the way, and offered 500 bucks.

[00:41:31] Marjorie Adam: There was no requirement to offer a certain fee. Just a fee. That was misunderstood. And yes, I’m not here, like my mission in life is not to go out and say, oh, you don’t wanna pay a buyer’s agent or, or a listing agent, and I’m gonna, my job is to convince you. No, it’s really not. It’s not. My job is to demonstrate my value and what I charge.

[00:41:52] Marjorie Adam: And then that client is either gonna say, you’re the right person for me, or I’m gonna go find someone who will do it for X or Y. ’cause that’s to me all the value there is in your job. And then that’s okay. They should go do that. So I think that we need to be clear so that our work clients, the people that wanna work with us, that see our value, understand what it is, and, and feel like that’s what I’m looking for.

[00:42:15] Marjorie Adam: I think instead of this us versus them, and what I charge is what I charge.

[00:42:19] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[00:42:21] Marjorie Adam: But I can’t just say, well, I’m gonna charge all the way up here, but do what everyone else does. Right. That correct? Correct. Yes. Correct. I think that’s the clarity. It’s, look, right now it’s, it’s what do you do? Mm-hmm. Or that client either over and above or differently or whatever it may be, than the the masses.

[00:42:39] Marjorie Adam: And I think that’s okay. And I think that again, and it’s okay. If someone says, you know what? I’m gonna choose to do it at this price versus this price, versus, that’s okay. Your choice. Your choice, right? ’cause again, either evolve up or understand I have less experience, I offer less. I’m not gonna do these things, and therefore here’s what I’m going to do.

[00:42:59] Marjorie Adam: It’s okay too. There’s no, not like you, right? You’re way right. It’s what’s so great about it. Yeah. As long as your brokerage, right, as long as you’re not breaking the rules or Right. But you know, that’s okay. So you have this chance now as a realtor to offer the value you offer, or demonstrate it or not, right, or get left behind, frankly, because you’re not moving forward with what the requirements are.

[00:43:20] Marjorie Adam: And so I think that’s the biggest thing.

Broker Responsibility and Industry Scrutiny

[00:43:20] Marjorie Adam: I think that my mission in life, honestly, right now, is education on this. I’m traveling around teaching it. I’m working with different companies on it because it’s so important. I think that people really pay attention and, and not attach. The issue becomes, a lot of realtors attach an emotion to a question, right?

[00:43:42] Marjorie Adam: It’s, you know, what’s your fee? Or Tell me about the lawsuits, and there becomes this. Well, I charge this and I’m worth this. No, no, no, no, no. That’s not the question. The question is, here’s what they’re about. This is what the changes, this is the requirements we have, and this is how I do this. Right. So not looking at it as a anger or, you know what I mean?

[00:44:02] Marjorie Adam: I think it’s just taking that time. Just

[00:44:04] Tia Lilly: matter of fact, you just, again, just back to that education

[00:44:07] Marjorie Adam: piece. Right. Yeah, so I think we have an opportunity now as brokers like you, brokers have a duty and an opportunity to make sure your realtors one are compliant. Understand, create their value and, and follow the rules.

[00:44:23] Marjorie Adam: Because I think the big, big, big upcoming problem for brokerages are gonna be if they don’t adopt, make changes to the forms, follow the processes, there will absolutely be continued litigation. Like I just think this is just the beginning, not the end. So the sooner we comply, the sooner we adapt, the sooner we move forward and take care of our clients and get outta the mess of noise, the better we’re all gonna be.

[00:44:45] Marjorie Adam: Right? So I think we as an industry from the top down right, have this opportunity right now to, to move forward and just take care of our clients. Look, we all just wanna take care of our clients. I wanna take care of my clients who need to sell. I wanna help my clients who need to buy. I want to work through that.

[00:45:01] Marjorie Adam: All the stuff. Do it in a compliant way moving forward, and that’s the way we need to look at it.

[00:45:07] Tia Lilly: I think sometimes that looks different for different agents though, so I mean, I encourage people to stop and take a look at, you know, just do a check with yourself. Okay. What value, just go through your transactions so far this year from your buyer transactions, particularly what we’re talking about.

[00:45:27] Tia Lilly: Just look at what value you brought. Like when I was, I will say when I was new, I will fully, full disclosure, I really learned through my clients ’cause I made so many mistakes and I, you know, I just, I’ll tell you, I never made it again though. But I did make a lot of ’em. I didn’t really have, especially I got into the water.

[00:45:50] Tia Lilly: A niche here on the Cape, and it’s such a different transaction than a regular straight out sale. I made so many mistakes, like it was a point where I would be in tears crying, like, maybe this isn’t for me. I’m terrible at this. But I, I just said, Nope, I’m gonna really educate myself and learn. And so it was through the clients.

[00:46:12] Tia Lilly: So I asked, ’cause did I do those clients a, a good service back when I was new? I don’t think so, if I’m honest. So, well, but we, I, I tried, my heart was in it, but I tried, but I didn’t

[00:46:23] Marjorie Adam: know. There’s always, there is a nuance that even today, right? I mean, I would say, I don’t know how many transactions and 28 years later, but something happens where I’m like, whoa, that’s, that’s different.

[00:46:35] Marjorie Adam: Right? Right. You learn all the time. Correct. Right. But I think for all of us, again, we aren’t one size fits all. We weren’t before. We won’t be now your niche. Your fee, your value proposition, your service level is yours, right? So again, I’m not, I’m not out trying to make, I’m just make sure as Yeah, no, that, that’s, that makes a good point.

[00:46:54] Marjorie Adam: It’s so you make a good point. It’s no one, it’s all, except you better get your buyer agency agreement changed except the compensation has to be written. The contract, like there are nuances that are for everyone. How you get there is your, your path and your vision, right? That’s why we have different brokerages, different service levels, everything, and that will continue, but.

Wrap-Up and Sponsor Message

[00:47:13] Marjorie Adam: Like I said, for me, I think taking a second and really evaluating everything and on the brokerage level, making sure that the messages are getting through to the realtors is key. You know, more than ever. So I wanna thank you for joining me today to share all of this, and it was fun. I loved, yeah. Thank you for having me, Marjorie.

[00:47:33] Marjorie Adam: And so like, so you promised me right, I can get a waterfront in Cape Cod for four 50. I’m giving,

[00:47:40] Tia Lilly: I’ll tell you what. I’m gonna send you what?

[00:47:45] Marjorie Adam: I’m just kidding. But

[00:47:46] Tia Lilly: I You are. As soon as you said condo, I know I’ve had

[00:47:48] Marjorie Adam: it. I just had a call for that recently. Well, of course you do. I had someone call me a week ago, say, I heard I could get a thousand dollars condo.

[00:47:54] Marjorie Adam: And I said To rent and they said, no. My friend said they’re selling thousand dollar condos. I was like, no. So you’re gonna, we love the friends, right? The friends. Friends. The friends and family. Very helpful friends

[00:48:03] Tia Lilly: and

[00:48:04] Marjorie Adam: family. Yes.

[00:48:06] Tia Lilly: Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me.

[00:48:10] Speaker 4: Real Estate unscripted is sponsored by Kova Mortgage.

[00:48:13] Speaker 4: Kova is committed to simplifying the mortgage process. Check out the tools we offer to realtors and home buyers at kova.com/realtors. Kova Mortgage, equal housing lender. NMLS ID number 4 0 5 0 8 NMLS consumer access.org.

[00:48:29] Marjorie Adam: Before we go, please show us some love by subscribing on your listening platform of choice and leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts.

[00:48:37] Marjorie Adam: Make sure you share this with your friends and be sure to listen in next week. Until then, this is Marjorie Adam. Don’t forget to check out the show notes for a recap. This podcast was made possible by listeners like you. Thank you so much for your support.